ignition problem, no spark ... SOLVED

[philoutch]

Hi Guys,

Again me with my next problem, no spark on the plugs ...

I cleaned up all the contacts, changed the cap and I have 12V on the coil, good start but unfortunately not enough to get my engine back up and running

Is there a troubleshooting guide for such issue ? not sure how to test the coil, condenser for instance ...

THX a lot in advance

[philoutch]

I removed the distributor cap to check the ignition points ( breaker points ) and actually I have spark only on one of them, not both.

Does the ignition system diagram looks like that ? is there also a relay on the 1800 CS1 ?

[707kevin]

You'll notice that the dual points on this system is a cold start, and running setup, not simultaneous.

The relay in the diagram you posted is controlled by a temp switch under the intake manifold.

A cold car starts on the 10* points, after warm up switches to the 0* points. (right?)

I've removed ALL of that system and run a single set of 10* points all times. Much less issues on my 75 carbed model. Of course I've then replaced the points with a pertronics electronic setup which may be the best $85 I've spent on the car.

If you have a hard time starting on a dual points system, make sure that the relay is not gone bad. Pull the relay and use a jumper wide to force the use of one set of points or the other.

[philoutch]

thank you for the help

Well, some news ... today I did the following :

swaped the condensers, both seems to be OK
adjusted both points & advance
located the ignition relay (next to the engine on the CS1 US) and tested - it's OK - and then tried the jumper method, switching from START to RUN

NO luck ... still spark on the START point but nothing on the RUN one and nothing on the plugs ...

I guess I still need some help before buying electronic ignition

THX

PS : knowing that I have spark on the STAT point I should also have spark on the plugs, NO ?
PS1 : sorry for my English - I am French and for my ignorance - I am an IT guy

[spider2081]

You say you have 12 volts to the coil. That is a good start.
I like to disconnect the wire between the coil and the distributor at the coil. With the wire disconnected and the ignition switch on you should measure the same voltage on both coil terminals. If that test is good. Remove the high voltage wire from the coil at the distributor cap and place the metal clip on the end where you can watch it and about 5 mm from a good ground like some where on the engine. Then with a jumper wire and the ignition switch in the run position connect the coil terminal that went to the points quickly to ground and remove it quickly. Each time you remove the ground from the point side of the coil you should see a spark from the end on the coil high tension wire. I like to test the coil this way because I know exactly when the spark should be visible. If you are getting the spark with this test then replace the high voltage wire in the distributor cap. Reconnect the wire from the distributor points to the coil. Now while the engine is cranking measure the voltage on the point side of the coil. It should be fluctuating and measure about 6 volts. If this test is good the points are working and you should be getting spark into the distributor.

[philoutch]

You say you have 12 volts to the coil. That is a good start.
I like to disconnect the wire between the coil and the distributor at the coil. With the wire disconnected and the ignition switch on you should measure the same voltage on both coil terminals. If that test is good.

this is good I have same voltage on both terminals

Remove the high voltage wire from the coil at the distributor cap and place the metal clip on the end where you can watch it and about 5 mm from a good ground like some where on the engine. Then with a jumper wire and the ignition switch in the run position connect the coil terminal that went to the points quickly to ground and remove it quickly. Each time you remove the ground from the point side of the coil you should see a spark from the end on the coil high tension wire. I like to test the coil this way because I know exactly when the spark should be visible.

I've got spark at the end on the coil high tension wire

If you are getting the spark with this test then replace the high voltage wire in the distributor cap. Reconnect the wire from the distributor points to the coil. Now while the engine is cranking measure the voltage on the point side of the coil. It should be fluctuating and measure about 6 volts. If this test is good the points are working and you should be getting spark into the distributor.

just a bit more than 6 volts but it looks OK

good progress !

one strange thing I observed while using the jumper to switch from START to RUN position. Looking at the following relay drawing here http://www.mirafiori.com/~thad/points.html RUN position should be between terminals 30 and 87a, on my relay it is between 30 and 87, just the opposite ?!?!?!

Also, I've found that I have only one wire on the intake manifold sensor ! did not find the second one ... what is the color code for these 2 wires ?

And still no spark at the plugs cap is new and I can't believe it is the rotor, there is almost nothing that can break there ...

Does anyone is coming to France soon ????

I am really thinking about buying Pertronix MR-LS1 ignition system if that can solve ALL of these issues ????

PS : One precision, I've got the car without ignition, not sure what the previous owner did exactly ...

[philoutch]

well, since I don't know what happened on this car before I am going to start form the beginning ... I am going to change the timing belt, might be related ...

[bobplyler]

It's not the timing belt. The only way a timing belt can cause the spark to fail is if it's broken. That being said, it's probably a good idea to change it anyway. If you are getting spark out of the coil, and not at the plugs, it's either the rotor, cap, or the ignition timing is WAY off.

[bobplyler]

One other thing. You might want to take the cap off and verify that the distributor is turning.

[philoutch]

Thanks you guys !

I started removed everything, belt, tensioner & water pump ( that was planned anyway )

This way I will start from a known & clean state.

[philoutch]

back on track ...

One other thing. You might want to take the cap off and verify that the distributor is turning.

that's OK, it turns.

I replaced the plastic pulley by the metal one.
I put the new timing belt in place, it loots OK. After 2 crankshaft turns ALL marks are still OK.

Let's continue with the ignition now ...

I set the car to TDC by taking the #1 spark plug out and putting a long screw driver in were my #1 spark plug came out. I rottated the engine manual until the screw drive was at its highest point, ignition rotor is pointing to #4.

is that OK ?

what could be the next step now ?

Also, I am not quite sure yet but I think the rotor is not touching the central contact point within the cap






What could be wrong ? parts mismatch ?

[philoutch]

Great news tonight ! found it

one of the condenser wire going to the point through the distributor hole was damaged ( inside the hole ) see green Scotch tape

Now I have spark at the plugs

RIDICULOUS, isn't it ?!?!?!?!?



OK the car did not start yet but I am not far away from that stage, I hope ....