Intermittent Issues (Photos Included!)

[Qberto]

Hello

I have a 1982 Fiat Spider and over all its great. The only issues i have a small nit-naks here and there, both cosmetically and this electrical issue.

At times the SEAT BELT and the BRAKE light will come on and then go off for no reason. I noticed the engine runs differently too between these two conditions. One will idle smooth and the other with be a tab bit rough, nothing detrimental. The Turn Signals exterior work fine but the interior signaling will blink once, then either fade to nothing or just blink once and thats it, even while the exterior signals still flash. Even when the interior signals flash well they seem to be out of sync with the exteriors. However, the HAZARDS lights work flawlessly, interior signals are bright and in total sync with the exteriors. Also, the interior fan and the dash backlight will have these two conditions. I'll be driving and then the backlight will suddenly dim out and the fan will get about half the speed...then switch back over...then back...and forth...and back...and forth. This is over between a few seconds to 30 mins.
All these issues seem to happen all at once. When everything seems like their working well, and when for example the lights go dim, the turn signals will be faint along with the fan, etc.
This afternoon i noticed something new, the door bell was still ringing even after i started the car and shut the door - this was after waiting the few seconds it normally takes. After a few times at starting and stoping the engine it eventually went back to normal.


The first thing i did was try to clean off the grounds, both on the right side and the left side, to no avail. I did notice another one when i was taking off the Ignition Key Switch(IKS), i'll look at that tomorrow.

Once i was looking at the IKS i noticed that it was soldered completely around. And on the two connectors coming out, 2 of them are as well, when the others are not.

This seems odd to me. I took a look at this youtube video and they show them to have clips on them...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G39ot4hKKyQ

Below is my photos i mentioned with the soldering...





I hate electrical issues and if there is anything i hate more than electrical issues its Intermittent Electrical Issues.

Anyone ever have these issues before and know what to do about it????

[spider2081]

The Sipea ignition switch has 2 terminal # 30 and only one is used. It also has 2 terminal labeled "int" only one is used. So there will be at least 2 unused terminals on all original Sipea ignition switches. Some older Sipea switches also have an unused terminal #16 so those switches have 3 unused terminals.

Some people solder the crimps terminal ends in attempt to make a better connection then a simple crimp, In my opinion it is not necessary unless the wire is loose in the crimp.

The "brown wire fix" adds a wire to the unused terminal #30. Both terminal# 30 tabs are part of the same switch contact inside the switch so adding the wire doesn't change anything operational inside the ignition switch and does not extend the ignition switch life. The 'brown wire fix" does bypass a couple electrical connectors between the starter solenoid's battery terminal and the ignition switch.

The hazard lights work off the "hot all the time" circuit of the car. The signal lights work off the "hot in start and run" circuit in the car. In other words they operate through the ignition switch. Your symptom sounds like you have a bad connection either in the ignition switch, fuse panel, or a connector between the flasher and the fuse.

[DieselSpider]

Mine was doing that because of an open positive wire that was occasionally shorting to ground under the hood. When the did they Diesel Conversion on mine they left the heavy yellow wire on the passenger side under the hood uncapped and just tucked it under the bundle so from engine vibration and driving it would intermittently short, dim everything and restart the timers on the seat belt light, etc.

[johnsje6]

There is also another ground group under the dash and one in the trunk, make sure those grounds are clean.

[Qberto]

There is also another ground group under the dash and one in the trunk, make sure those grounds are clean.

Didn't know about the one in the trunk, i'll clean those too.


Also, Today i was with my Step Father kind of looking some things over and tinkering around. We noticed that the Alternator Belt was floppy and needed replaced outright. I'm planning on just replacing the alternator with a higher AMP one. I remember the windshield wipers being very very slow too. And when i would rev up the engine the interior lights, the fan, and the exterior lights would get brighter/faster, which seemed like the appropriate brightness. So the New Higher Alternator and belt should help.

I was wondering if this had something to do with the internittement issues...? Guess i'll find out when i put them on. Fingers crossed!

[spider2081]

If the operation of signals and wipers changes a lot from idle to higher RPM the battery may not be fully charged. If you have an 82 Spider you should already have a 65 amp alternator. I would try the belt replacement first and see how that changes things.

[Qberto]

If the operation of signals and wipers changes a lot from idle to higher RPM the battery may not be fully charged. If you have an 82 Spider you should already have a 65 amp alternator. I would try the belt replacement first and see how that changes things.

Ya thats what i'm thinking too. It seems that i have to replace the belt for sure, plus the alternator sounded a bit funny. Given the symptoms, I went ahead and ordered a replacement for both anyway. Couldn't hurt. I'll check the other ground another member mentioned on here in addition to checking the battery on how it holds a charge. It doesn't really change though between long times of starting and siting, nor when i go on long drives.

I'll first clean all the contacts on grounds and the alternator stuff before diving any deeper in the rabbit hole.

[bradartigue]

The voltage regulator on the alternator can also cause these issues. Fix it after the grounds, or along with.

[TX82FIAT]

My guess is there are a couple things occurring at the same time and it will take some time to sort out. Cleaning all grounds and making sure you have the right tension on the alternator belt are great starts. The ignition switch is temperamental when it starts to have issues. I like the short to ground idea with the seatbelt/brake lights and doors chimes going on and off at times when they are not supposed too. Typically a short to ground will start blowing fuses is a hurry as you have unrestricted current. Good luck and stay patient. Once the electricals are sorted you will have a much better understanding of the system with the ability to track down issues quicker.

[DieselSpider]

That is what I thought too about the fuses however they never blew so the yellow wire may not be fused as it is live at all times even when the ignition is switched off.

[Qberto]

Well things seem to be on the right track. Until i tried removing the alternator. I seem to be having the same issues as this guy from the forum...

http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic ... nator+bolt

Oh boy. That bolt WILL NOT BUDGE! After hours of screwing around with it, I'm going to take it to a guy who specializes in Car Restoration and see if he can take out this one and install the new one, along with some other little nit-naks.

I mean, we wailed and wailed on that thing, Breaker Bar, 200 pound step father, the works. I do note however we did not try putting a torch on it to see if it would break it loose. We also don't have an Air Ratchet. Since we may lack the proper tools we were a little uncertain how much more the engine and mounts could take until it ripped the whole thing the frame. Or worse, break something like the guy in the linked forum above ^ .

So i'm just going to have to wait a little longer to see if this intermittent issue is caused by the Alternator and/or the Voltage Regulator.

Stay tuned for the next episode.

[Qberto]

Good news!


Took it to a guy to change the alternator. Took him 6 hours, every tool in the shop, and a few selected words. Long story short, this old alternator is about in 30 pieces. He had to break the thing apart, which i was okay with since we were putting anther one on.

Further good news...

First it looked bad. When i got it back from the guy the SEAT BELT and BRAKE light would stay on, and the interior flashers would stay dim. EH, Okay, at least its not intermittent like it was. It was now consistently shitty. Played around with it some more. Changed out the Relays under the passenger side dash. With the exception on one them, since no auto parts store had one like it. Also changed was the Flasher Relay under the drivers side dashboard. Voila!

Looks like the alternator/voltage regulator fixed the intermittent problems (Lights weakens, fan weakens, turn signal weakens, etc.). The Passenger side Relays fixed the SEAT BELT and BRAKE light issues. The Flasher Relay under the driver's side dashboard fixed the internal Turn Signal weakness and out of sync with external flashers issue.

I'm very happy.

This thing was driving me nuts for weeks.

I will not say its solved just yet though. Last night before i changed the relays i unplugged them and plugged them back in along with disconnecting the battery. When i started it up, everything looked like it was working well. Then i turned it off, when inside the house to eat, and when i came back to start it up again, the issues came back up. Glad to see its better now, however until i drive it around for a few days/weeks without the issues popping up i will consider it a success.

If i do not comment further on this issue in this thread, consider it solved.

[bradartigue]

I can't imagine what would take someone so long? It has two bolts.....

[Qberto]

Oh you have no idea... That thing was freaking ON THERE!!!

I had the same problem as this guy i posted on this tread just a few comments up ^

http://www.fiatspider.com/f15/viewtopic.php?t=12398

So I'm at least not the ONLY one. That guy apparently broke a part of the motor and the bolt still wouldn't budge.