distributor issues

[timspider]

news today is good and maybe a little embarrassing.
While cleaning the distributor crud, which it really needed, I noticed the rotor looked tired. As I examined it, the contact piece crumbled and fell out in two pieces. Like it was in there broken, but being held in place, which would seem to explain some or all of the intermittent part.
Probably should have been among the first things I checked. Live and learn.

[carlospena96]

Hello everyone, I have a 1981 Fiat 124 spider with fuel injection, I have problems with low rpms, the car jumps and have low power, but when i put my car in about 3500 rpm or more, my car do it well, with no problems, I don't know if my spider have problems with the spark plugs, the distributor, cables or is something wrong with the injection

PD: sorry for the bad english, I'm from Costa Rica

[76was124]

Hello everyone, I have a 1981 Fiat 124 spider with fuel injection, I have problems with low rpms, the car jumps and have low power, but when i put my car in about 3500 rpm or more, my car do it well, with no problems, I don't know if my spider have problems with the spark plugs, the distributor, cables or is something wrong with the injection

PD: sorry for the bad english, I'm from Costa Rica

Have you seen this manual? It will help you find the problem....start in section 5 page 38

http://www.artigue.com/fiatcontent/Arti ... 124_MM.pdf

If you still have problems you can search the forum or make a new post with information on your problem

[DieselSpider]

Distributor caps and rotors fail and need to be replaced as part of scheduled maintenance. The center contact is usually carbon which eventually gets slung around and causes arcing. The plastic or Bakealite will warp or become porous and absorb water to. Rivets on rotors get loose causing the towers to get scored. Replacing the cap and rotor was part of the normal annual tuneup back in the day and would be among the first things to check when experiencing skipping. Sometimes just pulling the cap and wiping the inside clean with a rag will be all thats required especially if its been humid or raining a lot.

[timspider]

excellent stuff. the basics. I had actually done a quick visual inspection but didn't really know what I was looking for. It didn't look discolored or bent so I figured it was good.
Such a fundamental thing to do. With the extensive list of things I've replaced in the last 2 years, it is a tad embarrassing to admit that this cap and rotor are not among them.
New rotor coming to O'Reilly tomorrow morning.
New cap coming in the mail monday.
will use the weekend to get the interior back together.
Looking to drive next week

[DieselSpider]

excellent stuff. the basics. I had actually done a quick visual inspection but didn't really know what I was looking for. It didn't look discolored or bent so I figured it was good.
Such a fundamental thing to do. With the extensive list of things I've replaced in the last 2 years, it is a tad embarrassing to admit that this cap and rotor are not among them.
New rotor coming to O'Reilly tomorrow morning.
New cap coming in the mail monday.
will use the weekend to get the interior back together.
Looking to drive next week

They are consumables which aside from the breaker points were primary sources of failure. I had a few 2.2 liter Chrysler Products from the mid 80's one with the turbo and with those you could get by with replacing just the wires and rotor since the tower contacts were the ends of the wires that went through slots in the towers so the rotor passed directly by them eliminating the connection point between the cap and the wires. Wish I had hung on to the turbo and restored it since in 165,000 miles it was basically low maint and trouble free. The E-Class Turbo New Yorker with a few Shelby tweaks was quite a sleeper that would shock the kids with more mainstream muscle cars.

[timspider]

no big update yet. still waiting on the rotor from O'Reilly's, which they already have in their system but have been unable to locate for 4 days. That was initially going to be a quick overnight thing last wednesday.
the cap, after finding a couple vendors out of stock, I found on Ebay for $19 including shipping. I assumed that might take longer, be the wrong part, be a scam, etc.. They promised to ship in a week- they shipped the next day, I got it in 48 hours, and it is an exact match for the original and looks good.
so still waiting on a tiny plastic thing.

[timspider]

plastic part finally came. 5 days to get an "overnight" part
the wrong part.
you might want to think twice before ordering a rotor for a spider from O'Reilly.
Their system has it labeled wrong and it will take them a week to figure that out.
If you are in a hurry- try any other vendor

[spider2081]

Personally we have a hand full of Fiat vendor's who do their very best to support our cars. Even if their prices are a little higher then the "national big guys" we need to support them if we expect them to support us. I try and purchase all my new parts from a Fiat Vendor that is a "Fiat Club of America" member. Just saying

[timspider]

kidding, right?
I know all of them. Have bought tons of stuff from nearly all of them for 2 years. I like Auto Ricambi because they've taken great care of me,are well stocked, and offer good options- they didn't have this in stock when I checked, nor the cap, so I had to find an alternative source.
I'm happy we have good Fiat vendors and they are my first choice for stuff and I've spent thousands with them, so I feel just fine about grabbing a $5 part locally when they don't have it.
Now back to the case at hand.
Need help...again.
Got the new cap and rotor on today- during the off time waiting for the rotor I got my dash back together with radio hooked up and emergency flasher switch plugged in.
Hooked the battery back up and when I touched the negative, there was a little spark, indicating something was on- I think.
Took a quick look in the cabin to see if anything bad was happening and all looked fine. Noticed a ticking- realized the hazards were on and working- hurrah!
walked around the car to check the flashing lights and they looked good.
so I got in to start her. turned the key and heard the fuel pump start- a good sign- starter cranked like a beast- but no start- no rumbles or stumbles- nothing.
turned the key off for a few moments and tried again- this time no fuel pump- nothing electrical happening except that starter.
so tried the hazards again- this time nothing
tried parking lights again - this time nothing
So this is where I am again.
Anybody near Grand Rapids that wants to take a shot at this?
Any ideas? I'm all out.
thank you

[76was124]

I think you could check for 12 volts at the fuse block #9 black wire and ground and the on the other side of the fuse to ground. That fuse feeds the light switch from the ignition switch.

No start might not be related to the lights though.

Did you check for voltage at the coil? Are the red and black wires connected properly?

You might want to also confirm the issue is no spark by lifting a spark plug wire and using a screw to make contact with the plug wire and let the metal barely not touch grounded metal while cranking.

If you have spark, make sure your plug wires are going to the correct places.

There is a chance I'll be in GR on Saturday for a graduation party that I could sneak away from for an hour.

Send me a PM with your contact info and I'll let you know by Friday.

[spider2081]

Nope I wasn't kidding. Didn't know you had tried one or more of the Fiat vendors.

I agree with 76was124 in measuring voltage at fuse #9. Reason being, The ignition switch has 2 voltage inputs. One is on a brown wire that should be on terminal 30 of the ignition switch. When the switch is in the start position the brown wire is switched to the red wire on terminal 50 of the ignition switch to energize the starter solenoid. Form your last statement I believe this circuit is working. I also believe the main chassis to engine ground is intact for the starter to spin quickly.

There is a black wire on the alternator output post that goes to feed side of fuse #10. Fuse #10 is connected to fuse #9 internally in the fuse block. So both of these fuses receive voltage from the same black wire off the alternator and are powered all the time regardless of the ignition switch. Fuse #9 unfused terminal has a wire connected to it that goes to the ignition switch terminal 30/1. When the ignition switch is in the start or run position this black wire is switched to a pink wire on terminal 15/54 that feeds fuse #1 as well as the coil voltage. I think somewhere between the alternator's output post and fuse #1 there is an intermittent connection. This would most easily be found (not that it is easy) with a troubleshooting test light and everything connected in the circuit.

Hope this helps.

[timspider]

She's fixed.
Thank you to the literally dozens of people here who have helped in the last year. Thank you- thank you
And yes I got grumpy a time or two- my apologies for being grumpy towards anybody.

I can hardly believe she's running. It's been since the Spring of last year. And the wicked purr is back.
Thank you.
I've got an engine rebuild in my future, so lots more questions coming, but I'm good for right now.
You guys are all the best

[AriK]

Ive been following along in the two or more treads that you have going. It gets a bit confusing going back and forth from one thread to the other so perhaps i missed something somewhere. The last i understood was the fuel pump was not engaging nor were the flashers or lights. So what was the final remedy? What were your last steps between that fine line of things working/not working?

[timspider]

yes, sorry I got scattered: pasting the final summary here: (thank you for helping me through that)

In my excitement I didn't ost the last pieces of the puzzle.
The wiring, generally, had multiple spots where brittle wires were grounding out- all the trunk wires- replaced those first and electricity started flowing again
then the switch, which it turned out not to be, was cleaned at each contact
then 2 grounds I found in engine bay were upgraded.
then checked the advance, which was a mess of crud and corrosion, cleaned that up
then checked the ignitor, which was not seated properly- fixed that
re-checked main grounding strap and made double sure that was tight on clean metal
replaced the negative cable at the battery
cleaned up 3 loose ends in the dash
the last 3 things were to replace a worn ring connector on the black wire at the alternator, which was badly frayed, re situate the ignitor module. and tinker with the timing- I needed those last 3 things to make the huge difference and I think the advance was really messing with me. Acceleration is smooth and strong now and sounds just beautiful.