Ignition switch,...

[wetminkey]

Previous situation: after years of proper operation, 3V is suddenly seen (rather than 12V), at Batt connector of coil and car will not start. Bypass of ignition switch (Batt terminal of coil to battery +) starts car easily. And, incidentally, my electric fuel pump has always run from number one, "A" fuse.
But confronted with this right off the bat:



So,...with the crimp connectors replaced with insulated spade connectors, and a new ignition switch, I find that number one fuse, "A" is energized with the key in the off position and I've had to remove my electric fuel pump from that circuit,...new switch because rebuilding and cleaning the old switch gave me this odd symptom first (after replacing the crimp connectors).
I doubt that this is a normal situation (especially since my electric fuel pump ran on that circuit for years, turning off with the key), and I'll simply install a toggle switch to control voltage to the pump, but I'm at my wit's end to come up with a reason why replacing the crimp connectors would cause this change,...big pink and little pink together, blue and blue/red together, and the rest are very straightforward.
I've only just started the car for a moment, since I have the fuel pump disconnected, but it starts/runs fine.
Suggestions as to why this is happening, how to fix it, and where I can attach my fuel pump (controlled by the ignition switch) in the meantime, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Todd.

[spider2081]

Need to know what year your Spider is. For my 1981 Spider here is how it works
Inside the ignition switch assembly there is actually 3 switch sections.
The brown and the black wire feed voltage to your ignition switch. The Black wire is switched to the pink wire in start and run and this wire goes to the coil the second pink wire goes to fuse "A". The brown wire feeds 2 sections, 1st the start position of the switch and switches voltage to the red wire to the starter solenoid to engage the starter in the Start position of the switch. The brown wire also feeds voltage to another section of the ignition switch. This section switches voltage in the start and run position to the headlight switch, fuse 2, and the battery warning light in the tachometer.

Hope this helps.

[wetminkey]

1979 Spider 2000. And, I was wrong, my electric fuel pump feeds from the farthest outboard fuse, number twelve, or, "N".
Everything works, the car starts/runs perfectly (I just checked, with the pump on a toggle to "N"), but all of four of my 16a fuses are hot, even with the key out of the ignition.
Maybe it's supposed to be that way,...
Thanks,
Todd.

[wetminkey]

Then I'd guess my question to everyone is: are all four of the 16a fuses ("I", "L", "M", and "N") supposed to be hot with the key off/out of the ignition?
Again, it's a 1979 Spider 2000.
Thank you very much, Todd.

[AriK]

My 79 has I and L as live when the key is turned off. They are horn and clock. M and N are power windows which i do not have the luxury of having. Your fuel pump is listed having a separate separate holder of its own on FI models.

[wetminkey]

Thanks, Arik. That sounds proper, and makes sense, as my clock has always run with the key off.
Mine also does not have power windows, although the 16a fuses are there, and my fuel pump is an aftermarket that I installed when I rebuilt the engine. Until this latest wiring change, the pump has always been controlled by the 16a "N" fuse (farthest outboard).
Does you Spider have positions for the "M" and "N" fuses, and they're just not there, or do we have different fuse boxes? I'm especially curious since mine does not have power windows either,...
I've got a toggle on the electric fuel pump now, powered again from the 16a "N" fuse. Everything performs perfectly, and the car runs fine, but I hate having fuses hot when they should not be,...
Since I've verified each of the ignition switch connections a bazillion times, I deduce that the change must have occurred in the removal of the crimp connectors, and, specifically, in the combining of Big Pink and Little Pink or blue to blue/red. No other accidental changes are possible,...as in Big Brown to Big Brown and to connector 30, black to black and to connector 30/1, etc,...how bizarre.
I think I'll concentrate on pink wire and blue wire connections that were made to eliminate the crimp connectors. My gut feeling is that my blue wire is now energized with the key off, and it was not before the wiring changes.
Thanks again,
Todd.

[AriK]

The fuse boxes are all the same. My M and N do have fuses but the circuits are dead. There are wires leading to them, a pink and a red (please dont ask me to follow where they go).
For the record your A and B should be live with the key on.
Positions C,D,E F,G, & H are live with the key on while lo beams are on (hi beams for C & D),
and again, I & L always live.
In separate holders, cigarette lighter and fuel injection pump if applicable.

[spider2081]

I believe if the car has the electric window relay installed fuses M & N will have power when the ignition switch is in the "start and run" positions.

2 pink wires do connect to a single pink wire that connects to terminal "15/54" of the ignition switch.

A light blue wire and a light blue wire with a red trace connect to a light blue wire with a black trace that connects to ignition switch terminal "int"

So if your wires are now connected as they are shown in the photo with the butt connectors that appears correct.

I am assuming by using the term "hot" "but all of four of my 16a fuses are hot" you mean have voltage not hot to the touch.

Fuse "N" & "M" could have power all the time if the electric window relay is energized all the time or if a previous owner some how by passed the relay. The relay is located on the relay panel under the glove box. Power to the relay originates at the "int" terminal of the ignition switch. The blue wire brings that voltage to feed the headlight switch where it connects to a brown wire that feeds the high beam flash circuit, the radio, and the power window relay. This circuit should only have voltage in the "start and run" position of the ignition switch.

The socket for the power window relay should have 4 wires their colors are black, brown, pink, and white with a black trace, in the socket.

Hope this helps.

[wetminkey]

Thanks, spider2081, that helps a lot.
Sorry, I do a lot of electrical, and yes, when I say "hot" I mean electrically active,...powered.
All connections are as you describe, and a stuck relay would explain the car's symptoms,...since "M" and "N" are powered even with the key off and out of the ignition (and why the car has these circuits/fuses at all, with manual windows, is beyond me!). I know that "N" turned off with the key, previously.
So far, I've fixed the low voltage problem at the coil and the car runs fine, but those changes resulted in energizing a circuit that was not previously energized with the key off,...
At least the car is running fine,...so I think I'll "put it all on a back burner" and mull it over a bit before tackling it again later, but I think you've help point me in the right direction, thanks!
I'll check the window relay portion of my wiring diagram carefully and diagnose from there.
Perhaps I need to check to see what is attached to "M" and "N", since the car should not have these circuits, where do they draw power from, and where is it supplied to? Who knows what previous owners have accomplished!
Thanks again,
Todd.

[spider2081]

I have worked on a number of 80-82 Spiders and all of them have been wired for electric windows. Even the wires are in the doors. The fuses are in place and the relay also has been in all of them. The fuses "M" and "N" are physically attached at the fuse panel. It is the top of the fuse where they are connected together. The connectors for the window switches are located behind the center radio console as is the factory radio connector.

[wetminkey]

Cool,...I'll concentrate my diagnostics on the power window relay and circuit.
I really appreciate everyone's input and I'll let you know how I come out,...
Thank you,
Todd.